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Sansome View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (3) Thanks(3)   Quote Sansome Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 Jan 2013 at 3:45pm
No- nothing like this jacket.....we found two triple pleat blouses from the 1870's, I found a triple pleat from the mid 1880's.... And now we have a double pleated one pocket blouse from what looks to be from 1889. All of our examples listed here have a pocket shape just like the 1870's triple pleat jacket LVC made. With that information- it doesn't seem that they made a jacket like this....I will say that pocket flaps were starting to be used on pants in the late 1870's....so it might be possible that they made it like the blouse above? I would like to see in the future- the triangle stitch used to fasten the buckle(not used on anything from the 1870's or 80's) I first see the triangle stitch used sometime in late 1891 or 1892....A box stitch should be used on 1870's and 80's repros, and on occasion.... A Z stitch should or could be used on 1874-75 repros.....oh man is that a super geek detail!!!!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (4) Thanks(4)   Quote entertainment! Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 Jan 2013 at 6:30pm
Originally posted by Dr_Heech Dr_Heech wrote:

Originally posted by Sansome Sansome wrote:

Both models are from the 1880's, the first one I think is modeled after the 1879xx...I'm almost certain that its from 1889. The question we should be asking is- who named the tool pocket pant Napave? What does that mean? The tool pocket pant might not be that much older that the other- defiantly sometime in the mid to late 1880's


Cant really tell which Lvc model that is (mr. randals 1st pics) as there is no back shot of it. If it is the model labelled - 'oldest/oldest', then it is indeed not the oldest by any means. I don't know if you remember Mike, but I think there was a long Sufu conversation about it - entertainment! had a pair, and after a bit of banter, decided to move the patch to the right/back, as opposed to the centre/back. John, if your reading this - can you confirm?

I believe the tool pocket 1880's model was labelled the 'Knappave' after the (secret) location of it's discovery.
The original pair found were a little like the FW/2013 cut-offs. I remember Lvc offering them as pre-distressed cut-offs which included the separate leg portions as part of a 'limited' package.

The raw version (2nd lot of pics) are the best early Lvc offering to date IMHO, apart from the 1873 (2001) duck pants.
Lvc Japan did a duck version a year later.   


Yes, Charlie, I did move the patch to the side based on the discussion in sufu.

My Knappave and my Oldest Oldest both have 2008 dates if I am reading the tags correctly.  It is amazing that there is so much disparity in the quality of the reproductions.

This was the picture of the original that the Oldest Oldest was based on but it has the patch on the side.  (Picture originally posted by Paul T).



These are some photos that Mr Randal posted, IIRC.










Edited by entertainment! - 30 Jan 2013 at 6:37pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (2) Thanks(2)   Quote entertainment! Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 Jan 2013 at 7:44pm
Here are some old photos I tracked down of the modified Oldest Oldest:






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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote Dr_Heech Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 Jan 2013 at 9:48pm
Thanks entertainment! - knew you wouldn't let us down. What do you mean exactly when you say there is so much disparity in the quality?

I think that those pics are of the original 1879 'XX', which are claimed to be the oldest of the '501' line. According to Levi's, all of the 501 line were called 'XX' prior to lot numbers being added to the patches, whenever that was. Sansome?

Wonder why they used that patch (as the original looks larger) and didn't choose to put the patch on the right side in the first place?

Edited by Dr_Heech - 30 Jan 2013 at 10:10pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Dr_Heech Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 Jan 2013 at 9:51pm
Originally posted by Sansome Sansome wrote:

oh man is that a super geek detail!!!!



   
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (2) Thanks(2)   Quote Sansome Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 31 Jan 2013 at 12:35am
Thanks entertainment- Dr....lot numbers were not put on in 1891, I know they are present by 1893....This pant above needs 4 things changed, to make it a perfect 1889XX replica. The XX shorts I have in one of the Amsterdam museums right now- It's from the exact same time period as the 1879/89 oldest XX....our label shows that this pant would have had the first Two Horse brand- it's a large leather patch because the label had a banner that read something like overalls - this made the label taller because of the banner.....by 1890 the overall banner was taken out( I've posted pictures of my 1890 #2's label before on another thread) you can see it without the overall banner, it made the label a little shorter in 1890&91....come sometime in say about 1892- the label got taller again to fit every garment guaranteed + the lot# ...enough rambling- now the 4 things that would make this a perfect 1889xx replica.

1. Correct 2 horse brand label, we know what it looks like.

2.Super geek detail on steroids-A rounded stitch on the bottom of the watch pocket you will never see.

3.Branded fly buttons- thee xx had them in 1888 through the first half of 1890..... I know they disappear by 1893 but until we come across a true 1891XX we won't know when the Branded fly buttons get taken off. I'm hoping that LVC will remake our 1889 two pleated-one pocket blouse this fall.... They will have to use branded buttons just like the fly buttons that are on the 1879/89 oldest xx and my pair from the same year....I have a copy of the button LVC can use to produce the correct button

4. Put a box stitch on the buckle if it doesn't already have one.

I would like to see a new version of the oldest oldest with all of these details....Fingers crossed
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote entertainment! Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 31 Jan 2013 at 4:50am
Originally posted by Dr_Heech Dr_Heech wrote:

Thanks entertainment! - knew you wouldn't let us down. What do you mean exactly when you say there is so much disparity in the quality?



On the Oldest Oldest, the quality of the stitching is not very nice.  I had to restitch in several areas because the stitching was unraveling.  The rivets were pretty standard LS&Co SF that I had to flatten myself--not the ones with the patent date.  The cinch strap was way too long, so I had to shorten it.




Edited by entertainment! - 31 Jan 2013 at 5:36am
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote entertainment! Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 31 Jan 2013 at 4:59am
More super geek criticism of the Oldest Oldest.
1 The buttons have stars on either side of SF Cal and shouldn't.
2 The back side of the rivets has embossed lettering instead of raised lettering (if I am reading the photo correctly).

(The front side of the rivets on the Knappave are a very close match to the photos of the rivets on the original for the Oldest Oldest shown above with the patent date.  Would those be correct for the Knappave, Sansome?  The back side of the Knappave rivets is rounded, sort of a flying saucer shape with a hump in the middle.)
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Dr_Heech Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 31 Jan 2013 at 8:43am
Thanks guys, this stuff is ticking all the boxes for me - I'm in geek-heaven here!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (3) Thanks(3)   Quote mr randal Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 Feb 2013 at 5:38pm
LVC 1878 triple-pleated blouse. 























Wasn't sure where to include this in the thread- LVC dated this denim version, from 2012, as 1880s. The new duck & check jackets, based on this same design, are labeled as 1878. I kind of think they did that just to link it to the 1878 Pantaloons, which this jacket was released at the same time as, and which are made from the same plain-selvedge, lightweight, slightly greenish, Japanese denim. I doubt they have good reason for pinning this at 1878 exactly…
 This is my jacket, and I have removed the leather tag, but it was placed on the outside bottom hem, off-center to the right.
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