Forum Wellbeing
Printed From: denimbro
Category: Denimbro
Forum Name: Denimbro
Forum Description: general
URL: http://www.denimbro.com/forum_posts.asp?TID=4243
Printed Date: 26 Mar 2026 at 3:25pm
Software Version: Web Wiz Forums 11.10 - http://www.webwizforums.com
Topic: Forum Wellbeing
Posted By: hollows
Subject: Forum Wellbeing
Date Posted: 31 Oct 2019 at 10:18am
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Hey all, I'm hoping we can use this thread to gather together some of the concerns and possible solutions about the forum's fate in light of recent events. I'm still pretty confused about it all so help me sort out the facts, eh? The short version seems to be that... -The forum's built-in hosting data limit is fairly low, and more storage is costly -We hit the storage cap and mods unknown began deleting threads to recover space -Most (all?) of the mods are either checked-out or uninterested in managing the site What we need to know: -How much would a storage upgrade cost? -Should we continue on-site hosting for images, or go back to requiring outside hosting (photobucket, imgur, flickr, etc)? -Can the content of the deleted threads be recovered? -How can we avoid hitting the storage cap again in the future? Or if it is unavoidable, what should be the agreed-upon procedure to manage the data cap? -Who is well-suited and interested in moderating the site? I'm going to make an effort to be more active until at least some of these questions are answered. I don't currently have the ability to assign new mods or change the storage/hosting settings, but I'm going to see if I can acquire these powers at least temporarily so we can get the forum back in shape. Basically all I can do with my mod powers right now is move, delete, or lock threads, ban members, and edit other people's posts. I apologize if the process is a little slow, I don't know much about the finer points of website management. In particular I don't know how to answer the question about whether the deleted content can be recovered. If anyone has relevant info, ideas, useful skills to contribute, feel free to discuss here. Have I missed any important points? In order to avoid further conspiracy theorizing, please keep it in the thread rather than sending me private messages (unless there's a specific mod action that needs to be performed posthaste). ------------- I make things out of http://www.hollowsleather.com" rel="nofollow - leather . |
Replies:
Posted By: robroy
Date Posted: 31 Oct 2019 at 10:45am
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Thanks for taking this on hollows. I would think first and foremost image hosting should be relegated to external sources. I can’t imagine how many threads could be had (data wise) for the sake of one image. It’s gotta be a lot. I suggested this before in the other thread but I’ll say it again, in order to preserve what we do have I recommend deleting some of the non denim related threads. That would at least clear some cache. Someone else suggested cleaning out your private message inbox. I know I’m not a frequent poster and I’m also not the most tech savvy but if mods are in short supply these days I’ll volunteer for duty. |
Posted By: Duke
Date Posted: 31 Oct 2019 at 11:23am
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Even by the title I knew who had started this thread I'm happy to do whatever is (reasonably? - before certain folk get too excited) necessary My only request is that the truth be always told - server space, costs and especially fit … if it looks shit you should be told - it's a Denimbro speciality and keeps things real. You can't make an omelette etc ... ------------- I don't swim. I can swim. I just don't have much cause to do so in the normal run of things. |
Posted By: Double 0 Soul
Date Posted: 31 Oct 2019 at 11:46am
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From my perspective, whatever has happened is in the past, surely everyone can sense how fucking annoyed we all are so let's not
waste anymore valuable time debating it, it's not going to change
anything. Recovering the lost data is key, if this can be done i'll do whatever i possibly can to keep Denimbro on the tracks. We
need some tech-savvy peeps on the case asap, if no volunteers come fwd
and we have to pay for somebody's time and/or advice so be it. We
need to contact our hosting site WebWiz to see what can be done
regarding recovery, again, if we have to pay for it, so be it. Everything
else can be sorted out in good time, but without our precious content
we have no basis for a forum, we can't continue posting in the psh,aaa
thread indefinitely. When you say 'costly' can we have a rough costimate? What's the salary of a small 'denim-forum moderator' these days £25,000p/a? ------------- I'll endorse anything for cash |
Posted By: Maynard Fried-San
Date Posted: 31 Oct 2019 at 11:47am
£80k if you factor in London allowance  ------------- Helixing my inner beanie |
Posted By: smoothsailor
Date Posted: 31 Oct 2019 at 12:19pm
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If there is a dyslectic computer nitwit necessary , Im up for a task. ------------- dislectic |
Posted By: Duke
Date Posted: 31 Oct 2019 at 12:20pm
Correct But as well as that, the arguments and upsets and jokes (no not you Maynard  ) and general attitude are what made the place. The size of the forum had an influence on that as well as the contributors.I hope both data and soul can be saved As I said previously - I'm very willing to contribute time and money. I'm pretty sure I can help on tech issues once I know what is required. ------------- I don't swim. I can swim. I just don't have much cause to do so in the normal run of things. |
Double 0 Soul wrote:Posted By: Double 0 Soul
Date Posted: 31 Oct 2019 at 12:50pm
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Couldn't agree more, very few people come to forum-land the complete package (apart from me obviously) i love to see people grow into a style which suits them and their personality, instead of masking over it. They often need some form of gentle honing to reach the denim-promiseland, we shouldn't let terrible fits fly through fears of being branded a bully. ------------- I'll endorse anything for cash |
Posted By: Double 0 Soul
Date Posted: 31 Oct 2019 at 1:01pm
This^ post fills me with a lot of hope. Julian- Can you elaborate further/offer some advice and possibly answer a few questions.. y'know in exchange for all that good SugarCane info
 ------------- I'll endorse anything for cash |
Posted By: Maynard Fried-San
Date Posted: 31 Oct 2019 at 1:26pm
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Such a jackass... ------------- Helixing my inner beanie |
Posted By: Double 0 Soul
Date Posted: 31 Oct 2019 at 1:35pm
Shud'up you! i'm trying to save the forum ------------- I'll endorse anything for cash |
Posted By: hollows
Date Posted: 31 Oct 2019 at 1:43pm
I tend to agree on this point, external hosting isn't foolproof or eternal (as we've seen with photobucket outages a few times), but for the long term health of the forum it doesn't seem unreasonable to ask members to determine their own reliable image hosting situation. There seem to be a lot of good and free options out there.
This isn't something I have an answer to right now. I can look into it if it's what the people want, but it feels like hosting everything on-site in a permanent archive will just create a recurring problem.
Unfortunately it doesn't sound like this can be done, at least not through WebWiz. It's possible that some of the threads can be accessed through 3rd party web archives, but bringing that info back to the site would be extremely laborious. Anyone interested in re-making a thread based on one of these web archives is welcome to do so (using external hosting for any images). But getting the threads and individual posts back intact can't be done. I know this is disappointing, but 'tis the way it is. The criteria for the deleted threads was everything without activity in the last year, no specific content was targeted for removal.
I appreciate these sentiments (and seeing nice fits) but there is a very fine line between critique and bullying, and a healthy forum requires us to have SOME regard for the feelings of the person whose choices we're discussing, and it does no good to simply proclaim that anyone with hurt feelings is too sensitive. We don't want to hone our way to a sartotial monoculture any more than we already have. The criteria for a good post needn't be "would I wear this?" Variety is a very good thing. Keep in mind that at any given time there are FAR more "lurkers" on the site than active members. 11 members vs 33 guests as of this writing. I do believe that the forum has a reputation for being elitist/snobbish, and that this reputation is not entirely undeserved. There tends to be little tolerance for deviations from our formula, and that scares off a lot of would-be contributors before they even sign up. The pool of regular posters is VERY small lately, and a little kindness could go a long way towards promoting growth and renewed interest. It feels ridiculous to ask a group of (mostly) middle aged (mostly) men to exercise basic kindness, but the forum dies without that, regardless of storage limits. Do your best to keep the criticism constructive, and if someone calls you an asshole, resist the urge to feel like they just don't understand your charming ways. It might be both. ------------- I make things out of http://www.hollowsleather.com" rel="nofollow - leather . |
Posted By: hollows
Date Posted: 31 Oct 2019 at 2:02pm
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There are some older snapshots of the forum archived here, if anyone is looking to recover specific content: http://web.archive.org/web/*/denimbro.com" rel="nofollow - http://web.archive.org/web/*/denimbro.com ------------- I make things out of http://www.hollowsleather.com" rel="nofollow - leather . |
Posted By: Double 0 Soul
Date Posted: 31 Oct 2019 at 2:03pm
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See hollows this is why you're a moderator. I think we've done pretty well over these last few years to
pull ourselves away from those denim-miner (bro-formula) cosplay days there are much
fewer fit-pics nowadays but much more variety in both style and brands.. i wear shoes with cats on for goodness sake.
------------- I'll endorse anything for cash |
Posted By: Duke
Date Posted: 31 Oct 2019 at 3:06pm
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Yeah - I understand the message you're selling Hollows (other than seeing DB as somehow unique in forums - it's not), and moderation is crucial. But let's not fall victim to confirmation bias and the associated fallacies. The challenge is finding where to draw a line as opposed not drawing one. Indeed the very act of posting is a purposeful method to invoking a response and so an opinion. The originator must then also respect the views of the commentator - this is an area that's far too often ignored in the headlong rush towards 'fairness'. As Stephen Fry once said “It's now very common to hear people say, 'I'm rather offended by that.' As if that gives them certain rights. It's actually nothing more... than a whine. 'I find that offensive.' It has no meaning; it has no purpose; it has no reason to be respected as a phrase. 'I am offended by that.' Well, so fucking what." ------------- I don't swim. I can swim. I just don't have much cause to do so in the normal run of things. |
Posted By: julian-wolf
Date Posted: 31 Oct 2019 at 3:11pm
There's not much to add beyond what's already been said. A single image takes up more space than a hundred pages' worth of text-only posts (or posts with externally-hosted images), so the first thing to do to cut down on space shouldn't be blindly deleting threads, but deleting—or, better, re-hosting—locally-hosted images. Conceptually, re-hosting is really simple: search the site for locally-hosted images, re-host them elsewhere, replace the local links with the new external links, and delete the stored images. Processes like this are very amenable to automation, and with some trial and error it shouldn't be too difficult to set up for our case here. It's absurd to think that there wouldn't be a backup anywhere of what's already gone, but if that's how it is then that's how it is.
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Posted By: mr randal
Date Posted: 31 Oct 2019 at 3:29pm
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Hi guys, long time no see. I'm going to suspend forum activity in a few moments for a 24 hour cooling off period. When we open back up I invite you all to post your thoughts in this thread on whether Denimbro should continue as a forum. When comments seem to have run their course, Hollows, Sansome and I will read through, discuss, and decide whether we think Denimbro should go on. If we agree that it does, hollows will make arrangements for the appropriate data package/ image hosting scheme, select some new moderators, and things will proceed. I will not be engaging with comment, just reviewing. Here's some of the things we will be looking at: - do you think DB is still relevant and can continue to be so? - what personal gain do you receive from interacting on the forum? - does the marketplace serve as a useful resource for you? - do you feel the site balance between information and personality content is acceptable? - do you have any concerns about bullying? Do you feel dismissed or condescended to by any particular members with problematic frequency? No names or specifics need be mentioned. - are you an even-tempered, thoughtful person who would be willing to act as a moderator? A more general and less site specific question- - do denim specific clothing fora still have an audience in the post peak heritage era? Thanks! |
Posted By: mr randal
Date Posted: 31 Oct 2019 at 3:33pm
Was Mama Anarchia hired to write this verbose non-statement?
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Posted By: mr randal
Date Posted: 31 Oct 2019 at 3:43pm
This kind of jovially purposeful misunderstanding and spin is not useful. One question I specifically am asking myself is: can Denimbro be a balanced, welcoming forum or is it becoming a personal blog with an extensive comments section and a preferred peanut gallery? I never did know exactly what to do with you- you are the King of Mixed Bags. On the one hand charismatic, warm, knowledgeable, party starter and poster of wonderfully down to earth yet sharply thought out content. On the other hand- a true diva, aggressive with opinions and personal dislikes, a puck-like dual desire to cozy up to and undermine authority, and a briar patch of denials and rationalizations when confronted with your own bad behavior. You are at once the glue holding the forum together now and its biggest source of conflict. |
Posted By: mr randal
Date Posted: 01 Nov 2019 at 3:47pm
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Okay, the forum is unlocked. Let's hear thoughts on its future.
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Posted By: Sansome
Date Posted: 01 Nov 2019 at 4:09pm
| All rise |
Posted By: shredwin_206
Date Posted: 01 Nov 2019 at 4:32pm
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Most people who think of Denimbro think we’re all stuck up assholes and elitists I personally like the mix of brands and the people on this forum that’s why I keep coming back. You can find some of it on SUFU but not all of it. Double 0 and Dukes threads were probably a couple of my favorite things here. I don’t think anyone was or is being bullied. I like that this forum everyone has thick skin and can take a the blunt criticism/input. I’m sick of seeing people where every image someone posts. They’re like omg that’s so amazing. Wow you killed it. Get all that fake bs out of here. But hey maybe that is where the denim community has gone? A bunch of posts and photos of you lacing up your boots, and photos of all your pristine barely broken in jeans. That’s just not for me and that’s part of what drew me here. Guys didn’t give a shit. They were hard on their stuff. Washed their jeans a lot or never washed them. I’d be sad to see the forum go but mainly because of the community and people I’ve met. I don’t think most of us are on IG, Reddit, SUFU. So probably would lose contact with a handful of you. Sorry for my rambling |
Posted By: robroy
Date Posted: 01 Nov 2019 at 4:53pm
Mark, Nicolas, sansome, thanks for returning to help sort this out.
I don't know if everything has been said about heritage brands and denim, and somehow cone closing it all feels like 1982 all over again, but my plea is that if Mark, Sansome, Hollows, et all, if you guys have moved on, it was great knowing you, and I hope you stop back in from time to time if nothing more than to say hello, and if that is the case, I would hope that you would hand over the keys to Dr heech, or JohnB or committee of bros to carry on. Thanks - Robroy
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Posted By: Sansome
Date Posted: 01 Nov 2019 at 4:59pm
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I have a massive backlog of things to post- my gal said she would teach me how to use a pc, so I do intend on posting if we continue- I’ve always been interested in some of the well versed UK bros- dissecting my 1876 Chinese impact report As for the market place- I’ve always done well when I needed to raise some $ |
Posted By: dudewuttheheck
Date Posted: 01 Nov 2019 at 5:45pm
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I absolutely do not feel welcomed on this forum overall and I doubt anyone who actually reads posts on here will be surprised to hear this. If it does continue, I doubt I will contribute much anymore for what I believe are pretty obvious reasons. I haven't really contributed much in a long time anyway aside from my accidental contributions... With that said, there is too much knowledge here to let this place die. My belief is that DB needs to open up and be a bit more welcoming than it is now because even if we save it now, it will die pretty soon after if it continues as is. Even if it is futile (and I really hope it is not), I would still vote to keep it going in hopes that it can stabilize. I think this forum deserves another chance if for no other reason than I believe the knowledge should be out there for people to learn from. |
Posted By: silencejoe
Date Posted: 01 Nov 2019 at 5:47pm
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I don't post much but this is my favorite place, i enjoy every post here
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Posted By: Excalipoor
Date Posted: 01 Nov 2019 at 6:45pm
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Hello been a lurker for years. Here is my input do you think DB is still relevant and can continue to be so? Right now I say no. I cannot predict what will happen in the future but there is a possibility it might. I use this site to inspire my creativity and broaden my knowledge. I'd hate for it to go.
- what personal gain do you receive from interacting on the forum? E-Friendship - does the marketplace serve as a useful resource for you? 100% yes - do you feel the site balance between information and personality content is acceptable? Yes, loved the interview section and how its worn thread. - do you have any concerns about bullying? Do you feel dismissed or condescended to by any particular members with problematic frequency? No names or specifics need be mentioned. Denimbro in its prime was very cliquey and most of the newcomers were intimidated by this. Old community was tight-knit but let very few in. - do denim specific clothing fora still have an audience in the post peak heritage era? Can't tell but denim will forever be a part of fashion and I don't see it going away anytime. |
Posted By: likeacannon
Date Posted: 01 Nov 2019 at 10:35pm
I wholeheartedly agree with Nic here. I abhor uniformity and hegemony and have really come to enjoy both the forum itself and the guys on the forum because I think there is a great mix of styles here and am glad to see the miner cosplay thing go the way of the dodo, and I have loved seeing members like Mr. Q, CSL, and Flash (just to name a few) show of their respective wears. On a more personal note, even though I haven't been around for but a few years I really do feel like you all are my denimbros in a sincere way. I learn much from you all, have enjoyed both the encouragement and the exhortations I've received, and even the jabs (as it is written somewhere "faithful are the wounds of a friend"). I couldn't care one lick whether this forum is relevant or not, and actually see its irrelevance as its greatest asset and draw. I have made genuine connections with some here, have made some cash when needed, and gotten to join in on the brotherhood of the traveling pants (although as it is well-documented I failed at that task). Denimbro is quixotic, and I wouldn't have it any other way. |
Posted By: Geeman
Date Posted: 02 Nov 2019 at 12:04am
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do you think DB is still relevant and can continue to be so? It's clearly relevant to a small group of people and if it can continue to be hosted it will continue to be relevant to that group. Without change that's all its ever going to be though. - what personal gain do you receive from interacting on the forum? I've got to say none, just another place that features some content on subjects that interest me. Funny though that my most visited threads are the non denim specific threads like post anything! - does the marketplace serve as a useful resource for you? No, to little a selection of brands and fits on DB to make it worth searching, which is in essence DBs biggest problem. - do you feel the site balance between information and personality content is acceptable? Yes, as above. Post anything is the best thread! - do you have any concerns about bullying? Do you feel dismissed or condescended to by any particular members with problematic frequency? No names or specifics need be mentioned. Personally no, but DB is not a particularly welcoming or diverse community. Although it's moved on from the cosplay image it still doesn't feature, encourage or welcome different fits/looks/ideas. There's a very small group posting fit pics that are quite frankly fawned over and any diversity is ignored. - are you an even-tempered, thoughtful person who would be willing to act as a moderator? I am but no interest (time!) A more general and less site specific question- - do denim specific clothing fora still have an audience in the post peak heritage era? Absolutely, look at Sufu. Sufu is often bashed on here but is a much more enjoyable, diverse and active forum. Bad manners/etiquette is called out quickly but also moves on quickly. There's a variety of fits and brands posted and discussed regularly. There a wealth of knowledge available. No offense but you all could learn a thing or two from the community over there. ------------- https://instagram.com/thegeelewis |
Posted By: CSL
Date Posted: 02 Nov 2019 at 12:14am
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Here are my thoughts. I’m not the kind of person who feels comfortable on IG & FB posting pictures of myself modeling clothing. In fact it’s very rare that I ever post any kind of ‘selfie’ on those forums. I do it here because it feels like an appropriate place for such activity. When I do post a photo of myself I feel somewhat comfortable doing it because I assume I am interacting with somewhat likeminded clothing enthusiasts. I imagine that my fellow contributors are focusing, not on the fact that I am an awkward old git, but on the garments I have chosen to invest in & wear. For instance someone may be thinking, “Ah, I noticed that item on the MF/FW/RMC site. So that’s what it looks like on.” I hit ’like’ on every photo that appears in the HIW thread even if the look is not my cup of tea. I do this because I appreciate that that person is taking the time to contribute. I feel if someone has the nerve to post a pic of themselves then they deserve a positive response. Who am I to criticize or judge their choices. (Of course if a person is asking for opinions about fit then an honest response should be expected & given.) Furthermore I have nothing against the IG mocs & socks, cuff adjusting crowd. I don’t think piss taking in general ever achieves anything positive. I wish I had figured that out earlier in life. While I understand that some members may feel differently I’m not personally concerned with the relevance issue. Since my teens I have lived my life as misfit wearing a costume. Even when I go out ‘dressed down’, ‘normal people’ tend to look at me like I have two heads… I’m not sure I would have the time to contribute as a moderator. I’m certainly willing to help pay for storage space. Would an annual subscription be a good idea? |
Posted By: Double 0 Soul
Date Posted: 02 Nov 2019 at 12:18am
Well observed Mark, I'll take it as a compliment, they are indeed
some of my personality traits and i wear my heart on my sleeve, being any other way would be...well.. fake. I will either post or i wont and you can either ban me or i'll stay, with the forum's content gone i don't suppose it matters either way. This
place has been a picture of serenity for the last 6 months, this
conflict was caused by an 'unknown' moderator deleting our content, it's
not my doing, i'm just trying to help pick up the pieces, did we ever get an apology? If the forum lives to fight another day, if our threads can not be recovered i'm
certain it will end up as something akin to a weird chat room for us
lot (i don't see that as a bad thing) but lets not keep fooling
ourselves that there are 33 nervous denim-noobs
waiting in the wings to post some valuable content and/or fit pics if
they could only summon up the courage, the new forum members only want
to milk our knowledge for their ebay sales, nothing more than that. The denim scene is long dead and we're just kicking it's corpse, Why? maybe we enjoy each others company.------------- I'll endorse anything for cash |
Posted By: Flash
Date Posted: 02 Nov 2019 at 12:40am
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If this place was to disappear there would be so much lost .... information , friendships and a real hole in a lot of members down time . There is nothing better when the forum is active and new posts are popping up but that definitely hasn't been the case lately , for me photobucket changing there terms of use had an impact on me posting and the fact that I'm a dunce when it comes to tech means learning to use a new image host frustrates the shit out of me but that's an easy fix I suppose As regards to the bullying ... I definitely think that dudewhattheheck has had a fair amount of stick threw at him that started in the Conners thread and carried on in bursts after that . If I'm honest I can understand where a lot of it came from at the start but after a while it just changed a little in my view If it's just a case of money then I'm sure knowing how much is needed to cover the extra data ( or whatever it is we need ) is information that we should have and from there we can make a decision as a community if it's something we can fund I've made a lot of Friends on this forum and that's something I really value so I hope we can work this out |
Posted By: Double 0 Soul
Date Posted: 02 Nov 2019 at 2:05am
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I agree dudewhattheheck does get a lot of shit, i admit, it was me who started it in the CSF thread, i thought for good reason but im not a scapegoat, a lot of folks are still laying the boot in today with snarky comments about the way he conducts himself around the internet and if i remember rightly flash, in the early-early days (pre CSF-gate) you was one of them. He also comes in for a lot of shit on sufu and i don't even post over there... ------------- I'll endorse anything for cash |
Posted By: bartlebyyphonics
Date Posted: 02 Nov 2019 at 2:14am
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So is this goodbye? An(other) mid-life crisis or end of life convulsions… If the latter its been nice knowing you all. Thanks for all the information, inflammations and deviations. My homework: Re: DB relevance: yes – as archive as well as discussion space. Now H&M kids are knocking out £7.99 mini-versions of warehouse flannels, keeping a knowledge space of the sharp end of production seems relevant. Re: Personal gain: sense of interacting with people on a shared set of interests as well as the sharp edge of discourse that a ‘like’ button does not engender… I know that I have learnt a phenomenal amount from this place and would want others to have that opportunity should they stumble this way. So I thank all those involved wholeheartedly. (In my phantasy I also want one day to write an academic piece on patina in forum culture so I have a vested interest in DB’s survival or at least archiving) Re: Marketplace: never used, (probably) never will. Can see its place though. Seems to be working from members comments so far. Re: Acceptable balance of information and personality: oh my. What a leading question. Esp. given the recent epic loss of information and the ‘cooling off’ calculated provocation of personalities … I wonder what this question will provoke; but I am concerned whenever silent majorities are invoked. Please speak you silent ones! Or to put it another way - The sharper tone here defines here… I seem to remember mr randal’s well placed and exquisitely pointed sarcasm as being one of the key reasons I stayed to read this forum … Re: Concerns on bullying; Exclusionary echo chambers exist here for sure; at times it feels that certain brands rule and I certainly miss the lower-key thrifting find fits of Bob Dale and others… There seems to really be one incident / set of conflicts that is being referred to consistently and I wonder whether that has extra baggage to be considered and is certainly part of a wider set of frictions between modes of different types of platform expression as well as between personalities. Truth and reconciliation committees wont fix that one but perspectives could be broadened. “The rise of the influencer and the fall of the forum” is a general condition, not specific to here but there seems to be a particular personality that is being targeted for a larger online tension … Inflammatory language and strong opinionated statements get hits in certain areas / situations and wounds in others ... how these get resolved demands mod interaction, complete personality re-writes and people on DB to not look at the rest of the interest with quite so much rage ... If this is a case of ‘behave so we don’t scare the children’ I am led back to the aphorism: better a whole-hearted feud / than a friendship that is glued… Unwanted opinions are part of the division within the social that defines it as a social space. Or not, this is the internet after all… DB was formed from a somewhat separatist urge was it not? The threads from when DB first split from sufu evidence that if memory serves… Increased inclusion requires more than banning a few people (or burning down their labour) … I would point to the limited measure of conversation that takes place on IG where likeability and likes are the order of the day and where much more pathological behaviour goes about but in a less stated manner… as previously noted one of the primary functions left here seems to be ebay valuations or people attempting to wrangle vintage dates from the esteemed Dr Heech Re: Could I be a mod; why not… give me that banhammer. I’ll have the place shut down in a jiffy. My temper is not that even… Re: Denim specific fora and their relevance today; slow and ethical fashion becomes more and more and more relevant in the specialist arena and the public mind. Why throw away such a key resource (collectively built) that speaks / expresses / demonstrates most forcefully the pleasure of detailed consumer knowledge around production / provenance and of wearing the same garment multiple times until the end of its life? In an era when knowledge on fashion as a detailed form of cultural expression is rising why destroy archives on brands that might only otherwise be found in the very brands archives (or not, remembering the frustrated reporting by members of conversations with members of levi’s archive team). Lets publish the book: The slow delights of being a denimbro (rugged opinions not included) In terms of peanut gallery vs. forum well-being: burning down the forum’s back-catalogue due to lack of activity makes me feel rather unwell (not that I have any right to it, but there it is). To in any way link this burning to the alleged misbehaviour of forum users (in terms of their alleged destruction of any future of the site) rather beggars belief. There may be problems, but how to not con-fuse them. The dominance of a few voices here is noted, as is the lack of wider activity; but the annihilation of the threads without time to back-up feels quite disheartening. I would urge there to be focus on these two matters as being separate. The forum’s future as a place that welcomes diverse posts and fosters conversation (even in a post-peak heritage landscape) is obviously a welcome goal. But then so is the place for open discussion. If alleged bullying is in relation to discussion by DB members of Instagram genres and methods I think that the solution is increased active and interactive mod presence as well as doses of patience and goodwill. Re: the unasked question but broader cultural dilemma of ‘Exclusion to diverse posts is not tolerable’ vs. ‘ad hominem as lifestyle curative’… Forum users may mock IG useage and behaviours but that is probably a defence solution of the disenfranchised. Burning down the house due to frustration or apathy is a good way to kill everything. As a narcissistic troll I cannot but have sympathy for, and derive enjoyment from, narcissists throwing muck at each other. I don’t think that is bullying. But as noted I have that personality disorder. But so does a lot of the internet. It’s the lulz, innit. For me DB is specific compared to IG and sufu in not really functioning primarily via like or dislike buttons; its specificity is having users ready to voice things rather than press buttons; this is something to be addressed if a silent majority feel alienated. Qualitative vs quantitative communication seems to be part of this (yet the very quantitative model of IG is what makes it alienating to human interaction – but then again keeping the forum alive so a few people can have ‘quality banter’ is obviously not the founder’s objective either). Changing the quality and direction of conversation by banning members is an age old forum method. Banning the members that contribute quality content because they have opinions that do not recruit, well… scorched earth and all that. I hear the message: Silent majority; contribooooot! Elders stay a little more mooooooot! How to build a framework for that? Peace out to all you online-utility-dandies! PS most ever online users was Sep 2019 … ppl be reading this stuff more than ever … no? or more flies around the corpse?
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Posted By: Flash
Date Posted: 02 Nov 2019 at 2:36am
I never said it was only you nor did I try to use you as some sort of scapegoat . Your saying I made continued snarky comments towards dude and his posts ? I honestly can not remember making such posts but if you could link me to them then I guess I'll have to eat my humble pie |
Posted By: Double 0 Soul
Date Posted: 02 Nov 2019 at 2:54am
|
No i never said continued Dude, don't get
your knickers in a twist over my comment, flash i a very likable (even
lickable) upstanding fella, this was from when you first landed on the
denim scene while spending many $1000's buying up all the best shiz we
were discussing how rich-kids buy into scene's they know fuck-all about
whether it be 'denim' cars ect... do you remember flash? Unrelated/related...There
was a post of yours in the watches thread where you posted 'ive never
been a watch guy before but seeing as you've all got one check out my
recent acquisition of 1000's of dollars worth of man-dazzle... ------------- I'll endorse anything for cash |
Posted By: Flash
Date Posted: 02 Nov 2019 at 3:07am
|
Sure , I remember something like that but they pretty light hearted comments ... ive probably said something similar about broarc and his mountain of denim My only problem with the ... dude situation ?? Is the consistency of the comments |
Posted By: Geeman
Date Posted: 02 Nov 2019 at 3:29am
|
I mean no offence to Dude here but he does polarise opinions. He is an example of what we often discuss, IG "influencer" vs seasoned forum poster.... he owns some beautiful peices so has the right to be able to rate/discuss merits and standards of a particular brand, however it's the way he does so and the click bait style that turns a lot of us off. Again no offence Dude, I have unfollowed and pay no attention to your content as its not for me. That however does not give me or anyone else who feels the same the right to deride or publicly attack you. We do have to also remember though this is a forum and by posting content you are in fact inviting people to give their opinion, pro or con. Blogs are for a more one way presentation of opionions... forum: noun 1. a meeting or medium where ideas and views on a particular issue can be exchanged. ------------- https://instagram.com/thegeelewis |
Posted By: Mainwaring
Date Posted: 02 Nov 2019 at 3:45am
|
A problem with the written word is perception. Clear to the writer isn’t always clear to the reader. An open forum offers opportunity to question, to discuss, similarities and differences alike. This thread is at risk of being hijacked by past pettiness. We’re doomed! |
Posted By: Geeman
Date Posted: 02 Nov 2019 at 4:14am
|
Shall we circle back to Mr R's points? Is the forum still viable and worth keeping open and if so is the effort and funds to do so available? ------------- https://instagram.com/thegeelewis |
Posted By: Broark
Date Posted: 02 Nov 2019 at 4:32am
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Do you think DB is still relevant and can continue to be so? Sure, I think it's important to the several of us that remain active and post regularly. I'll admit I don't post here as much as I once did and some of that is due to the recent dip in activity. I check the forum regularly for denim and vintage clothing related information, but even more so for everyone posting about their lives and personal backgrounds. It's a small community, but I feel that it really is one where you can get to know others and a personal level and I quite like that. What personal gain do you receive from interacting on the forum? I enjoy interacting with the likeminded people here who enjoy similar interests, that's what this forum is all about after all right? I really enjoyed the Show Me Your Neighborhood thread, as that gave everyone a glimpse into other people's lives through a lens that's not necessarily clothing related. Does the marketplace serve as a useful resource for you? Never used it much around here, but I understand it's purpose. Maybe it's a subform that can be cleared out every few months to free up space. Do you feel the site balance between information and personality content is acceptable? Absolutely, and that's what I love about it. I've learned more about vintage Levi's and other clothing from the wealth of knowledge here over the years and it would be a real shame if it came to a close. I never would've discovered Freewheelers and half of the other stuff I'm into if it wasn't for this place. Do you have any concerns about bullying? Do you feel dismissed or condescended to by any particular members with problematic frequency? No names or specifics need be mentioned. I'll admit I've taken jabs at some members before, but honestly when I first popped my head in here a few years back I was met with a very similar welcome. People thought I bought too much too quickly (maybe they still do to this day!), but I think I've shown that this is just something that I genuinely enjoy and love. I didn't let that feedback get to me. In fact I feel like I've used that feedback to make better informed clothing and style choices. I don't think this place should become an echo chamber for forced positivity and strings of emoji spam like Instagram and Reddit usually are. I think honesty shouldn't be misconstrued as bullying. I will try to be less pointed with any criticism I have going forward, and I do apologize if I've come off as an ass to anyone previously. Are you an even-tempered, thoughtful person who would be willing to act as a moderator? Sure I would like to think so, and I'd be up for the task if everyone else finds it appropriate. Do denim specific clothing fora still have an audience in the post peak heritage era? I think to us there will always be an audience for this little niche hobby we all enjoy. And we all know fashion tends to be cyclical (hell, I'm wearing jeans with cinch backs that went the way of the dodo in the 30's) so I think the activity and interest will peak again at some point.
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Posted By: Double 0 Soul
Date Posted: 02 Nov 2019 at 4:59am
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Its like having a bag full of treasured photographs, emptying them all into the fire and asking if we should keep the bag? ------------- I'll endorse anything for cash |
Posted By: Flash
Date Posted: 02 Nov 2019 at 6:51am
I really get what your saying here but dont you think it's worth rebuilding ? If we can put all this past stuff behind us and get this place back on track ... back to the days where there were more than 2 posts a day How much is the extra space going to cost Mr.R / Hollows ? |
Posted By: Double 0 Soul
Date Posted: 02 Nov 2019 at 7:38am
|
In its current state Ryan, No! i don't. Denimbro was a
wonderful thing which mr randal created, ive chucked all but the kitchen
sink at it over the years (thanks by the way to all those who've
appreciated my non-denim threads) those "2 posts a day" were often my 2
posts. I'm one of the few forum members that doesn't dual post over on
sufu because i believed that if you wanted to read my often incoherent
ramblings then you have to tune in to Denimbro. I'm not even
going to fill in this questionnaire, it's demeaning.. hollows, sansome
and mr randal haven't given a flying fuck about this place for years, it
was their mismanagement which lost all of our precious data yet at the
very end we still have to dance to their tune by meeting their criteria
so 'they' can decide if Denimbro worth saving... for us. Pull the plug or don't
but i'm not entering into this glorified begging. ------------- I'll endorse anything for cash |
Posted By: Flash
Date Posted: 02 Nov 2019 at 7:56am
| Nothings changed on my end mate , your one of the friends I was referring to in my previous posts . I think were mature enough to have a discussion without getting all bent out of shape |
Posted By: MJF9
Date Posted: 02 Nov 2019 at 8:05am
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Hello gentlemen, I’m one of the lurkers... out from the shadows. I post on the Sufu channel now and then so I know many of the crew here already. I must say thank you to all the DB community – I’ve enjoyed your contributions even if my bank balance hasn’t. I hope you don’t mind me adding my two-penneth. It's an intriguing multi-faceted topic. I’ll take the mr randal’s questions first and then share some thoughts… - do you think DB is still relevant and can continue to be so? Two questions rolled into one… Yes - definitely relevant… our very presence confirms this. Along with Sufu, it fills a niche I haven’t seen the others reach. Yes – it can continue to be so… however this subject to (*) below - what personal gain do you receive from interacting on the forum? Fit inspiration – though DB itself is a niche, within that niche there is diversity and imagination. Great fits, nicely varied, well worth the visit. I concur with the above that even if they’re not my style, I still value seeing them. Thanks all! Great source of information – hopefully not past tense – influential in informed trips to Yahoo Auctions looking for SC M41001s (with the cloth patch) via a recommended proxy service and appreciating the finer points of wonkiness on a S406xxx M-46 first half WW2 denim jacket to name but two. Switch off – always a pleasure to tune in and zone out - does the marketplace serve as a useful resource for you? Yes – I’ve bought stuff from there before, so there is value in it persisting Brings relevant objects to the fore for the time-poor… with confidence they’re pre-owned by a fellow hobbyist from the community - do you feel the site balance between information and personality content is acceptable? Yes - by virtue of the fact that the content is created by the community. If I don’t like the balance, it’s on me to contribute to change the balance, select my own balance with what I read or just log off. - do you have any concerns about bullying? Do you feel dismissed or condescended to by any particular members with problematic frequency? No names or specifics need be mentioned. No, not from what I’ve read. There are undoubtedly dominant and opinionated members on DB – however that’s part of the appeal and part of life. One differentiator for DB is the straightforward, candid opinions (also true for Sufu). It flies in the face of the likes-for-likes and gratuitous backslapping that are sometimes features of other channels. I understand there is a line but I haven’t seen it crossed here (I might not have read enough). If lines are crossed, we’re all big boys, surely they can be dealt with and move on, with/without moderators help? No-one is above constructive feedback imo and communities are based on adjusting themselves. In general, if you come to DB (or such like for that matter) and ask for an opinion or put it out there for opinion, surely an honest opinion is the best kind… and I understand most are grateful for it even if it isn't always what they wanted to hear. This is all two way over time - what goes around tends to come around. - are you an even-tempered, thoughtful person who would be willing to act as a moderator? Not one for me thanks… time-poor and not really known here so not a viable option anyway - do denim specific clothing fora still have an audience in the post peak heritage era? Definitely. I only heard recently that heritage had been all the rage and the peak had already passed without me even noticing! I'm interested as I'll do my own thing irrespective. Sufu is pretty lively and proves the point that there is an audience out there. There are no doubt others who could be encouraged here by way of referral and organic growth to bolster numbers. (*) I was thinking about the exam question ‘what would need to be true for DB to live and prosper hereafter?’ Somewhat repetitive and obvious… but here goes since I started... 1. People – engaged moderators (new volunteers), contributors (already exist, would benefit from a little growth (says he on his first post!!)) and committed ownership (presumably part of the review mr randall refers to; ‘deleted-content-gate’ does need to be addressed face on to move on) 2. Purpose / vision – comments thus far suggest it has this… something needs doing with the lost content… content will surely evolve as well though 3. Culture / values / behaviours – the comments from the community will no doubt help with personal and collective reflections… that may make this an even better place in future; the right kind of active moderation will help too 4. DB ownership / commercial aspects – obviously essential – interested to hear what transpires, particularly in regard of sustainability beyond the immediate All eminently doable if the desire is there for all 4 points! What if DB ends up dead in a ditch? I venture that the people, depth of knowledge and the content make DB unique. The good news is all of these (fingers crossed) are enduring and transferable. So… if the forum is to be stopped… why wouldn’t the non-Sufu users just migrate themselves, their brains and their content over the road to Sufu? Just a thought… Many are already on dual channels (which, to me at least, is an overhead) CSL – there is always a welcome place on Sufu for your FHUTT (very happy to see another fellow with them, you don’t get that walking around the city centre in the cold grim north of England!) Double O – it needs a show us your neighbourhood thread! Etc etc… you get my drift… So there are solutions if the powers that be decide DB is to no longer be… If the UK Prime Minister survived the ditch, then I really do think that DB can too. |
Posted By: Excalipoor
Date Posted: 02 Nov 2019 at 8:08am
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Some DB questions to ponder upon IMO How do we get people to join and interact? How do we get them to stay? Will DB be more acceptable of brands and other styles? Generally I think the small denim / denim community has gotten small. Most transferred to IG. Interest in raw denim and vintage/ repro has dimmed down. DBs problem right now is it's stale. We need more people. |
Posted By: julian-wolf
Date Posted: 02 Nov 2019 at 8:18am
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No one's asked yet, so I will—what the hell was the deal with shutting down posts for a day there? Has there been an explanation as to how putting a whole forum on time-out like a bunch of school kids helps to answer any of the questions at hand? I'm nothing but thankful for all that the mods & admins have done historically—mostly before my time—to put this place together and keep it running, but this whole thread feels a lot like them leaving for a while then not wanting to bother reading the backlog of what's happened and asking, in stead, for a short summary of the last who-knows-how-long of activity all in one place so that they can catch up nice and easy. It's been nice reading through folks' sentiments and all, but it doesn't feel like any new information has come up so far whatsoever. Now that that rant's over… The thread's seemingly built on the premise of deciding whether the forum should be kept afloat; but, until this thread came around, that didn't even feel like a question worth asking. Clearly there are still active members, and many have offered to help fund continued web hosting. That's all there is to it. Having mods & admins is important in general, but the forum's been doing fine for the last while with them mostly away, and it's not immediately clear to me why it shouldn't continue to do so if they choose to formally step down. The forum doesn't need to grow, and it doesn't need to be welcoming, in order to continue existing in its present state. It's possible that growing and becoming more welcoming would be productive, but whether or not that's the case should be a different discussion for a different time. Being here is nice as-is (even though I know I haven't been contributing all that much, especially recently), and that's all the question of should-we-keep-on-going ought to come down to. I do feel like some answers are deserved. If the information that's been lost is lost forever, then so be it, but—having already said what's in the previous paragraph—I'll feel much less inclined to continue using this forum if whoever blindly deleted it retains the power to do so again in the future. Deleting information in such a way as they did is never, ever an appropriate move, and this should be made very clear to anyone with the relevant permissions at the time of their onboarding. In deciding to post here, we're putting faith in the forum's team to take good care of the information that we post, and seeing it deleted in broad strokes, and without warning, when clear alternatives exist is disheartening to say the least.
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Posted By: shredwin_206
Date Posted: 02 Nov 2019 at 8:23am
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Kind of seems like it had run its course a while ago. Content got pretty stagnant besides a couple members. I do also find it kind of odd that the mods out of nowhere just delete a ton of content without even asking. When they seem to rarely post anyway? |
Posted By: Double 0 Soul
Date Posted: 02 Nov 2019 at 8:32am
Ego's and an exercise in 'having the last word' ------------- I'll endorse anything for cash |
Posted By: shredwin_206
Date Posted: 02 Nov 2019 at 8:51am
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Make Double 0 a mod maybe? Haha |
Posted By: Double 0 Soul
Date Posted: 02 Nov 2019 at 9:23am
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I don't want it For a safe pair of hands CSL would be my choice, if only his internet connection was up to the job... ------------- I'll endorse anything for cash |
Posted By: The Librarian
Date Posted: 02 Nov 2019 at 9:24am
| I don't think it's elitism keeping people away. It's the fact that not many people have the passion or time that it takes to make high quality posts without being compensated for it. This whole thing feels like an attempt to drive the content creators away and put this place out of it's misery. |
Posted By: hollows
Date Posted: 02 Nov 2019 at 9:45am
To clarify, posts were deleted because the forum was hitting the data cap repeatedly. That cap either needed to be raised or posts needed to be deleted to free up space. A choice was made to delete all threads with no activity in the last year. It's clear that folks aren't pleased with how it went down, but it wasn't done entirely without reason, nor was it targeted/malicious. Aside from accessing an archive through the link I posted earlier, there is no way to recover the old threads and posts. If there's content you want to rescue (and I will likely do this for the Quarterly thread, should the forum survive), you can re-post the content manually, but I have no magic wand to restore the deleted threads. With that understood, I would hope that the value of the forum doesn't lie EXCLUSIVELY in this lost/archived content, the current community and active threads have some value too, yes? ------------- I make things out of http://www.hollowsleather.com" rel="nofollow - leather . |
Posted By: hollows
Date Posted: 02 Nov 2019 at 9:48am
If I may dare to speak for Mr Randal, I think the intent was to: 1.) draw attention to this discussion and the questions posed 2.) prevent this thread from being monopolized by a few voices before more folks were aware that the discussion was taking place ------------- I make things out of http://www.hollowsleather.com" rel="nofollow - leather . |
Posted By: julian-wolf
Date Posted: 02 Nov 2019 at 9:50am
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^^ Personally, I feel that the current community and active threads carry a great deal of value—but I also feel that, if the recent deletion of content isn't appropriately addressed, continuing to participate will likely feel forced. The deletions may not have been carried out out of malice, but, as you've noted, "there is no way to recover the old threads and posts", and deleting information in an irreversible manner, regardless of intent, is fundamentally malicious.
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Posted By: julian-wolf
Date Posted: 02 Nov 2019 at 9:51am
| ^^ and while I still don't think that agree, overall, with the choice to shut down the thread for a day, I'll admit that that latter bit of reasoning is one I hadn't considered and one that I can get behind. Fair enough. |
Posted By: Double 0 Soul
Date Posted: 02 Nov 2019 at 9:54am
Made by who? ------------- I'll endorse anything for cash |
Posted By: hollows
Date Posted: 02 Nov 2019 at 9:55am
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What does "appropriately addressed" look like? The perpetrator thrown down a disused mineshaft? "That's Denimbro Justice!" Reparations for time spent writing posts? I jest, but really, what would you like to see done? ------------- I make things out of http://www.hollowsleather.com" rel="nofollow - leather . |
Posted By: dudewuttheheck
Date Posted: 02 Nov 2019 at 9:57am
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I do want to point out quickly that I've only ever had one issue over on Sufu and that was in regard to Cone Mills and I would absolutely not equate that incident to some of what's happened on here. It's a false equivalency. Since then, I have had no problems on that forum so I don't know why that keeps getting brought up. As for the CSF incident, I am pretty sure I corrected that. 00, you not only are mentioned along with others in that thread, but you are also credited with introducing Brass on this forum and therefore introducing it to me. I have a lot of links to this forum and I do my best to encourage readers to come here and have specifically said that there are more details and knowledge here than I can provide myself. Maybe you don't want me to do that, but I can't imagine why. My blog content may not be liked by people on here and I understand that. It is not meant for people here because pretty much everyone already has so much of their own knowledge. Why do you think I don't share my blog posts here? I only shared the CSF one for feedback and I got the feedback. I don't intend to teach anyone here anything. Yes, I am a little "click bait." I feel like I need to be in order to bait people away from blogs that are even worse than mine. I am not saying I am perfect or some altruistic person, but I have only just made enough money from my blog to pay to keep it running. Also, I consistently encourage people to join forums and this forum in particular. It may not have worked, but I'm trying. My goal is to grab the people who know very little about all this and get them interested in higher quality clothing and get them to come to places like this. You may think this is a stupid goal and that's fine, but I don't. Either way, my point is that I don't bring up my writing here anymore and for good reason. If I'm not asking for feedback, I'd prefer it not be referenced here. It's not like I'm trying to educate all of you. Why would I try to tell 00 what's what when he introduced me to two of my favorite brands?!  Sorry for derailing this thread, but I'm being brought up so much that I feel I should explain. |
Posted By: Double 0 Soul
Date Posted: 02 Nov 2019 at 10:00am
Concentrate your time on data recovery to make up for the mishandling instead of distracting us with questionnaires, we trusted you with out data and you've lost it.
------------- I'll endorse anything for cash |
Posted By: julian-wolf
Date Posted: 02 Nov 2019 at 10:13am
I'd like to see whoever was responsible for the decision fess up to it, and I'd like explicit assurance (assuming that, once this all settles down, there is still a denimbro for it to happen to) that it won't happen again. Personally, I'd never posted anything all that important here, but threads like Duke's or 00's being deleted without warning feels like a major breach of trust. Taking the time to post on a forum, even if just posting bullshit, should be repayed by the knowledge that whatever's being put out there will be available for others to read and absorb in the future. This—not making sure that everyone feels safe and comfortable, or that new members feel an inclination to join and post, as important as these things may be—should be the number one responsibility of forum leadership. I guess what really annoys me about this is that the whole thing could seemingly have been avoided pretty easily by letting the users know what was going on ahead of time. Given the number of folks who've spoken up with a willingness to donate or to put in time rehosting images, it seems likely that even a week's notice would have been sufficient to get past this without any loss of data. Instead, it was all done behind closed doors. I wouldn't mind this in itself if it hadn't been done so poorly, but it was.
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Posted By: Duke
Date Posted: 02 Nov 2019 at 10:15am
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Sad to say I think you’ve definitely nailed one issue Nate And as Edwin and quite a few others have noted (and as I have) that there has been an honesty that some have deliberately interpreted as bullying. Ironically it seems those that are ‘concerned’ about it that are being most manipulative, and they seemed to have excused themselves from the Gustin debacle amongst others. So of course there’s a reason to continue but not if it’s to be sanitised to within an inch of its life. ------------- I don't swim. I can swim. I just don't have much cause to do so in the normal run of things. |
Posted By: shredwin_206
Date Posted: 02 Nov 2019 at 10:21am
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Seems like I know how this thread is going to end. Send me a message if you’d like my email and we can keep in touch I’m also on IG and SUFU Thanks for all the good times Denimbros! Made some great friendships here! |
Posted By: eastwest
Date Posted: 02 Nov 2019 at 10:53am
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Hi all, Not to dismiss any of the comments above but it does read like a good time for what’s next in terms of is it worth it, who will moderate and what’s the cost. If all mods have pulled back or out almost completely then maybe a good time for whatever useful information can be handed over to be handed so we can have a more simplified yey or ney on moving forward questions? For a starters/ example, if it’s Mr Randal with the webbiz account etc.. then can we find out about storage, Mark handing over the account to a chosen/ nominated keeper/ king mod/ chair if that’s what he’d like to do? I don’t know, just moving on thoughts. Just feels like action time maybe. |
Posted By: Duke
Date Posted: 02 Nov 2019 at 10:56am
------------- I don't swim. I can swim. I just don't have much cause to do so in the normal run of things. |
Posted By: Bob Dale
Date Posted: 02 Nov 2019 at 11:32am
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So many words to read , wow. I , obviously, have been absent.I assure you it was for no particular reason. I check in on the forum periodically , and my entire time as a moderator I can only remember very limited 'drama' that I had to act upon. Usually I'd get a text or something and check in. As a a matter of fact , I was completely oblivious to any of This before about 20 minutes ago or so. This forum is slower thAn superfuture ever was , and far more honed in on a very specific style. I've been a member on so many forums ... I think I registered for styleforum in 2008? I was , and am obsessed with clothes but Instagram and texting with friends is 80-90% of my interaction with clothing these days. I think personally , I don't want to see the forum go for nostalgic reasons But I contribute so rarely now that I don't foresee myself as the right fit to serve as a moderator moving forward. I like to think most know me , and I hope nothing i did or didn't do contributed to any ill feelings or conspiracy theories mentioned in other places . I believe any matters I've instigated have been resolved and I've apologized for any off hand remarks or emotional posts. I interact with people regularly I only know because of this forum. I think it has changed , but I think it ebbs and flows and that's why I check in from time to time. Will this forum ever be like superdenim circa 2010 ... Probably not, but do I still want a place to come and share OF COURSE I DO. MIKE/ hollows - who do I pay pal to help keep the site operating ? |
Posted By: Blood&Thunder
Date Posted: 02 Nov 2019 at 12:32pm
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- do you think DB is still relevant and can continue to be so? - Yes, for reasons below. - what personal gain do you receive from interacting on the forum? - The how it's worn thread is great for sharing ideas and getting inspired. Some of the threads have a wealth of knowledge on both brands, history, and manufacturing which is extremely beneficial for those interested. - does the marketplace serve as a useful resource for you? - Not really. Early on in my time as a consumer of this clothing genre, yes. I'm a bit more seasoned now and consume much less than I did. - do you feel the site balance between information and personality content is acceptable? - I think in some ways this site is a victim of it's own knowledge base. There has been so much information and experience spewed into this forum already that I feel it has hit a bit of a saturation point. When I recommend people check out this forum I always revert back to advising people to begin at the beginning of a particular thread and ignore the more recent stuff as the real nuggets of valuable information were provided years ago. I think a huge amount of the DB population contributes little to nothing as they are really just here to learn and absorb from those with more experience than them. I personally contribute very little as when I do visit I ultimately get caught up on a thread and come to the conclusion I have nothing useful to contribute that hasn't already been said. - do you have any concerns about bullying? Do you feel dismissed or condescended to by any particular members with problematic frequency? No names or specifics need be mentioned. - This forum has more of a cliquey vibe than the few other forums I have been involved in. It is focused on a very niche market and there really isn't much support for anything outside of that niche. I personally do not think that is a bad thing as I appreciate the specificity of this space. However, that will inevitably lead to some visitors or members not feeling completely welcome and it will absolutely inhibit the forum from seeing large growth.... If that is the goal. Do I think criticism on some occasions has gotten out of hand? Yes, but that is inevitable when you are dealing with comments coming from a group of flawed humans. - are you an even-tempered, thoughtful person who would be willing to act as a moderator? - Even tempered, yes. I would be willing to try depending on what being a mod entails (I have not been a mod before). A more general and less site specific question- - do denim specific clothing fora still have an audience in the post peak heritage era? - Yes. Even though we're maybe on the downturn or even at a valley on the style roller coaster there is still value and I believe an interested audience.
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Posted By: smoothsailor
Date Posted: 02 Nov 2019 at 12:36pm
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For me the forum is relevant , even for the small group of people that comes here. I like the tone and knowledge. Favorite threads are non denim related. The fact that I know that the mutual interest in denim [clothing] is there , makes the connection even stronger seeing there's more mutual interest. If there are blogs and ig accounts with thousands of beliebers in custom redwing laces. it should be easy to keep this alive ------------- dislectic |
Posted By: Broark
Date Posted: 02 Nov 2019 at 12:40pm
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All things considered this is the most active I’ve seen the forum in a long time. Maybe this is the poke and prod we needed to rejuvenate this place.
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Posted By: Double 0 Soul
Date Posted: 02 Nov 2019 at 12:43pm
Don't worry Bob, we've got you covered 
------------- I'll endorse anything for cash |
Posted By: Nonriveted
Date Posted: 02 Nov 2019 at 8:37pm
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Long time no see denimbro fam......dont know if you remember me, its been quite a while. Sansome and i have been chatting about the forum this eve and i thought i would just chime in. I appreciate the creation of this thread, it seems to be a bit of denim therapy that the old place needed.... and it was perfect that the thread was given direction by the founder. I remember the day we transitioned from a facebook page to an actual forum in 2012. This place was such a great escape from work and family....i still feel a connection.........even though i had to refocus and have not been present. I am supportive of this continuing if that is what is decided.....it seems to be a good place for many. I dont know how i fit into this anymore since the players have changed..... We are 7 years into this homegrown, friend funded site about denim, it has organically grown and shrunk to fit the needs of its users. |
Posted By: Double 0 Soul
Date Posted: 03 Nov 2019 at 2:12am
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Handing over the keys to somebody we can trust would be a good start. One of the posts has been deleted from pg3, CSL's post beginning "Here are my thoughts" was at the top of pg4 yesterday, can anyone figure out who's it was? Edit-
No worries Dude, i only read 3 or 4 threads over on sufu, the Levi's thread being one of them so there's probably a bit of disproportionate representation at play.
------------- I'll endorse anything for cash |
Posted By: Bob Dale
Date Posted: 03 Nov 2019 at 5:26pm
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Double O - In case you didn't notice you've already posted 17 times in this thread. In at least 2 places a post of yours is followed immediately by another post by you. It's fine to have opinions , but maybe let others share too. Also -- hi nonriveted! |
Posted By: The Librarian
Date Posted: 03 Nov 2019 at 5:58pm
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Him posting 17 times isn't preventing others from posting or having opinions. Based on the content that he's produced here 00 deserves to have more of an opinion than Joe lurker. |
Posted By: Sansome
Date Posted: 03 Nov 2019 at 7:29pm
That was my two cent post 00- my attention was drawn to anther thread, I reviewed the thread- and felt that my post, no longer belonged here. If we do carry on- this won’t happen again. |
Posted By: Double 0 Soul
Date Posted: 03 Nov 2019 at 11:20pm
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Thanks Sansome Sorry non-riv's, re-reading that post this morning it does sound a
little rude, i know non of this is your fault, i should have put some
winky-faces  Yeah Bob, you've got 2 posts
and you don't post here at all, its pro-rata maybe if you had given this much of a shit for the last three years we wouldn't be in this
predicament.Sorry for having opinions by the way..
------------- I'll endorse anything for cash |
Posted By: Sansome
Date Posted: 04 Nov 2019 at 12:00am
|
House is quiet- up late watching Dr Strangelove for the umpteenth time (Mandrake, have you ever seen a commy drink a glass of water) that’s where I’m at. There’s more to come- think we are taking comments for the rest of the week. There has been more than enough members,with well crafted arguments - for keeping this alive. I couldn’t dream of coming up with a better compliment- that was given to you by Mr Randal ( I wholeheartedly agree with what he said) I’ve always taken a back seat here- narrowly focused on what interests me- I’ve never dealt nor do I think I ever will—-deal with the other side of you,that Mr Randal talked about, after the compliment My vote is to keep it afloat- but it’s not just my decision If we go back to self hosting pictures- this will never happen again- I think it’s possible for enough people to chip in- and self host pics on the site- but I don’t think that’s a solution for the future ( life happens) I have 2 teenage daughters- a small zoo and a yard too big to manage......being the only heavy lifter in these parts.......you have one young son It’s no wonder how you have so much free time on your hands😜 hears to you 00 🙏💪🏽💪🏽💪🏽💪🏽🥑🐴🏋️♀️🚙👍👌🦶🏻🐶🐔🔥🔥🔥🔥🔥🔥🔥🔥🔥🔥🔥🔥🔥🔥🔥🔥🔥🔥🔥🔥🔥🔥 |
Posted By: Bootsen
Date Posted: 04 Nov 2019 at 12:18am
|
Hi there, Long time lurker member, infrequent poster. I hope the forum continues as I do find it entertaining and informative. We're all big boys (and girls) here and people should be able to cop some blunt feedback without getting all bent out of shape. I haven't seen any interactions that I would describe as 'bullying'; as a neutral observer I think to an extent there is a bit of a cultural disconnect between what a Brit would consider 'banter' and what some US bros think is a personal attack. If the forum does go the way of the dinosaurs (which I hope not) I will google 'Neal Sheffield denimbro' in the coming months to hopefully tune into OO's lifestyle blog for my weekly dose of entertainment. |
Posted By: Double 0 Soul
Date Posted: 04 Nov 2019 at 2:37am
Its no secret that Ive clashed with Mark on occasions, often my own fault, he's right i do have a tendency to push back against authority in whatever guise it takes. I stand by all of my comments here but through it all i still have genuine affection for mr randal, i even proclaimed my love for him recently while discussing this soap-opera with some other forum peeps, no word of a lie, this actually happened.  ------------- I'll endorse anything for cash |
Posted By: Mr Black
Date Posted: 04 Nov 2019 at 4:02am
|
My tuppence
- do you think DB is
still relevant and can continue to be so?
Absolutely. I
think one of the many positives of DB is it’s smaller size (compared to say,
SuFu). There’s a wealth of in depth knowledge on here which while may be of
equal levels else where, the sheer size of other forums means that information
is much harder to find. Saying that, I rarely go on Superfuture/superdenim. I
just find it too big and I guess daunting. I’d rather be a small fish in a big pond, than
a minnow in an ocean.
- what personal gain do
you receive from interacting on the forum? Personal
gain? Difficult to quantify. I do find it a very pleasant place to while away a
few minutes every day. I enjoy the banter, I’m often inspired by the ‘how it’s
worn’ thread and usually in awe of the ‘I made this.’thread. There are some
very talented people in the membership and it would be a massive shame to lose
that grouping.
- does the marketplace
serve as a useful resource for you? Yes.
Have both sold & bought through it. - do you feel the site
balance between information and personality content is acceptable? Certainly.
I think (if I’m understanding the question correctly) the personality content is
what makes this site. I don’t want to be surrounded by yes men (and women),
back slappers & sycophants. It needs a level of personality.
- do you have any
concerns about bullying? Do you feel dismissed or condescended to by any
particular members with problematic frequency? No names or specifics need be
mentioned. Personally
no. I do perhaps think it’s a cultural divide. Over here in the UK maybe we’re
a bit harsher in our language. You can call someone a Redchrisbut still have
respect for that person and maybe even like them. We’re all big boys (and girls
here). If you don’t like someones outfit or fit, opinions, whatever, I’d rather
someone be able to voice their opinion without someone taking it too personally.
I do get however that that opinion needs to be constructive rather than
destructive.
- are you an
even-tempered, thoughtful person who would be willing to act as a moderator? I
think I’m even tempered and thoughtful but I’m also incredibly lazy and not
very tech savvy J Perhaps not the best attributes of a moderator. Happy
to give it a go if deemed appropriate.
- do denim specific
clothing fora still have an audience in the post peak heritage era? Yes-
the fact that this forum alone has over 2,000 members, there are god knows how
many contributors to Superdenim, various reddit pages, Instagram ‘influencers’,
new small shops popping up to support this (not necessarily dedicated to denim
but certainly with it being a major factor), denim days etc etc… ------------- www.sidewinderapparel.co.uk |
Posted By: Maynard Fried-San
Date Posted: 04 Nov 2019 at 4:36am
|
Seeing as feedback is requested, I'm game to provide it. - Relevance? Still relevant to me and clearly all the regular posters and any of the less frequent ones who have responded. I believe it will continue to be so too. - Personal gain? No real gain per se other than the chat and generally good-natured vibe on here. As a (sadly, now) middle-aged man with (still) young children and ageing parents (in ill-health), too many pets, a busy job and an old house requiring attention, I don't have much of a social life these days - tiny violin alert! - so DB and Sufu fill that gap to an extent, I've enjoyed making online friends. Additionally, few if any of my real world friends share my denim interest so the denim fora are my only outlet for that. I'm not concerned about new releases and what's hot or who's wearing what but I like the detailed knowledge of certain brands shared by a number of individuals, e.g. Dr Heech, 00 Soul, Sansome, Paul T (although primarily on Sufu), Foxy and numerous others I've failed to mention. - Marketplace? Definitely a useful resource, I've bought and sold a few items there and it's easy to use, based on trust and goodwill, etc - Site balance between information and personality content? I have no problem with this, if I did I probably wouldn't hang around here - Any concerns about bullying, condescension, etc? The forum can be lively, open and honest at times but in general, no problems. As many have already commented, if you choose to put a picture of yourself out there on the internet, looking for likes, feedback, comments, etc, then be prepared for what you may receive! DB isn't like Sufu in its heyday nor full of teenage trolls so most comments are fair and balanced, even if they're not all positive. I'm not sure how the forum can grow though, in terms of numbers, diversity, inclusivity, etc (where the laydeez at)? That is likely to be an issue for future sustainability. - even-tempered, thoughtful moderator? I'm all that and more as most of you know! Unfortunately I have some personal issues, which in addition to family commitments mean that I wouldn't be able to devote as much time to the task as it deserves. In the future it's a possibility though. - Still relevant post peak-heritage era? To me yes, as I was neither bothered nor aware that it peaked and then declined. Also, I don't use Instagram so (as stated above) the fora are my main source of info, chat, etc. It should be noted that I'm probably a bit of a late adopter/neo-Luddite so what I want or like is in no way reflective of the general populace, particularly those younger folk. Still, no way I'm joining the Fedora Lounge, I'm not quite in the coffin dodger bracket yet! Finally, I'd like to thank mr randal for setting this up in the first place, it was lively, fun and just different enough from Sufu to warrant its existence. I think Sufu has calmed down and this place has almost closed down and in its present guise, I don't think there is a huge amount of difference between the two, other than the respective traffic/usage, many folk are members of both and simply duplicate their posts, similarly to the Instagram users who copy and paste their content from that place. My point is, I think, that despite all the positive things I think about DB, unless changes are made to keep it fresh and different, there is probably no point in keeping it going, it simply feels like a stay of execution. I'd like to see mr randal back at the helm (although to be fair I have no idea of Mark's personal situation, etc) with some new mods including the likes of 00 Soul - the responsibility will either bring out the best in him or the new found authority status will make him rebel against himself, causing a 'does not compute' error and subsequent spontaneous human combustion - alongside a rejuvenated Hollows (the newly proclaimed 'Voice of reason'). That or more pictures of cats doing cute things, they seem to be ever popular these days. I hope that's useful. ------------- Helixing my inner beanie |
Posted By: b_F
Date Posted: 04 Nov 2019 at 5:19am
|
- do you think DB is still relevant and can continue to be
so? It is definitely relevant as a denim forum and a point where
knowledgeable people share their experience and stuff. It would be more
relevant though if the deleted content could be brought back as there was so
much info there. - what personal gain do you receive from interacting on the
forum? Entertainment. Getting to see new stuff or evolution of
items, learn about history and brands. Chat with like-minded people (real life I know people seldomly share
this depth of denim talk) - does the marketplace serve as a useful resource for you? I used it
multiple times to sell stuff I no longer wear, so yes it was useful - do you feel the site balance between information and
personality content is acceptable? I think the
regular people around DB didn’t need to talk too much about denim, boots,
workwear information. They probably know most stuff now so the personality content
got certainly higher which isn’t a bad thing. DB became like a refuge for the
people who didn’t want to post on Sufu or Iron Heart forum and who don’t want
that “fast-food” Instagram stuff. - do you have any concerns about bullying? Do you feel
dismissed or condescended to by any particular members with problematic
frequency? No names or specifics need be mentioned. I do think
Dude for example got quite some flak at times. Both in the CSF and leather
jacket threads. Of course, if you post in an open forum you can’t complain
about unpleasant comments. This is part of exposing yourself online. As a
non-native speaker it’s hard for me to judge how much stuff here is written in
jest and how much is serious. Especially since many guys around here know each
other, some banter is inevitable. Personally, I never felt bullied. - are you
an even-tempered, thoughtful person who would be willing to act as a moderator? I think I
am…but I’m not sure if I have the time A more general and less site specific question- - do denim specific clothing fora still have an audience in
the post peak heritage era? They
certainly do and they are a nice change to Instagram or sites like Reddit where
all the info is just buried after a day. |
Posted By: Duke
Date Posted: 04 Nov 2019 at 7:41am
|
Relevance I don’t know if that’s the right question. But in the main I’ve learned and and I’ve enjoyed the chat - so that’s relevant to me. I suppose changing lifestyles and a burgeoning variety of alternatives makes the forum a quieter place at times - although I’m not convinced that’s a major issue. Personal gain The relevance of the forum has been my gain. I’ve made inter web buddies (there’s a lot a real good people here) and what I’ve learned from them has added to the pleasure of my own collection. Marketplace It was never an important aspect for me but I can see the benefits - especially in trust via ‘known’ members. There has been frustration expressed at short term visitors solely using the marketplace and bypassing the main body of the forum but perhaps that’s just an issue that comes with the territory? Site balance The mix of personalities and chat is excellent - that’s the (slowly?) beating heart Bullying I see thoughtless comments, thin skinned people, misunderstood humour and refreshing honesty. I also see apologies and explanations and often the forum members have brought their own moderation. Condescension? Aye, that happens but I genuinely don’t see any purposeful bullying. Acting as a moderator I am a naturally open, impartial and unbiased guy but it’s evident I wouldn’t qualify in any way to be a moderator - and thank goodness for that since gallows humour doesn’t travel well. There are however a good number of contributors in the forum who I know would do a great job. Generally specific The question doesn’t make any sense at all but it seems like a yes/no response would do ... so being a positive guy I’ll vote Yes ------------- I don't swim. I can swim. I just don't have much cause to do so in the normal run of things. |
Posted By: Bob Dale
Date Posted: 04 Nov 2019 at 8:23am
my intent wasn't 'hey , please shut up' , sorry if it was perceived as such. my observation of the thread was that folks were to discuss, and my observation was you were kind of running the conversation. That's all. I apologize if it came across poorly. I accept that the impact of what I said is outside of the intent. I'll log back out, and casually observe. I never claimed to be a good moderator BTW. |
Posted By: Sansome
Date Posted: 04 Nov 2019 at 1:26pm
The ☁️ Is falling- I thought you had more faith in this process But the status of your denim fades are still amateur We’re here to see if you want to go pro 💪🏽 |
Posted By: bobbo
Date Posted: 04 Nov 2019 at 1:37pm
|
I don't hang around these parts a lot to be honest. Still, I think Denimbro definitely has a purpose to fill and it would be a sad day if it went away. What really intrigues me is what the next step forward should be while still keeping the special flavor of Denimbro. ------------- http://instagram.com/indigovein |
Posted By: The Librarian
Date Posted: 04 Nov 2019 at 2:59pm
| The forum has a purpose still, but fuck I was really hoping to research and find a pair of those early M series at some point. |
Posted By: julian-wolf
Date Posted: 04 Nov 2019 at 3:04pm
| ^ Still happy to talk M-series Cane’s any time, with or without 00’s thread |
Posted By: Sansome
Date Posted: 04 Nov 2019 at 3:41pm
Ah- I was about to ask what that was We have some rebuilding to do on our end- meaning some of our threads will come back- with mostly fresh information that we know now. A lot of content was lost- not just the stuff you care about. |
Posted By: Sansome
Date Posted: 04 Nov 2019 at 3:58pm
I don’t mean to sound- like you don’t already know what I just said At some point in time- if the original thread starter feels up to restarting the thread- then we can move over and continue the conversation about whatever’s on your mind. Don’t get me wrong- I’m not telling you what to do or how to feel(that’s obvious to all) If you want to keep talking here- about the loss You can |
Posted By: The Librarian
Date Posted: 04 Nov 2019 at 5:42pm
| Wasn't mean at all. Now, if you had called my clothes ill fitting I probably would have had a mental breakdown. |
Posted By: Double 0 Soul
Date Posted: 04 Nov 2019 at 10:29pm
|
If we did, we'd be the ones having the breakdown.
T-Bone Slim recovered the M-Series thread for me  I tested posting images from Flickr over on sufu last week and it worked a charm. Give me a couple of weeks to make alterations (links within DB to my other posts will be dead) and i'll post it up over there. I didn't make the thread for me, i made it for you lot so it should exist somewhere in denim-land. ------------- I'll endorse anything for cash |
Posted By: CSL
Date Posted: 04 Nov 2019 at 10:46pm
| I'm curious, how did he manage that? |
Posted By: Double 0 Soul
Date Posted: 04 Nov 2019 at 10:54pm
|
I would guess.. by being under 40  ------------- I'll endorse anything for cash |
Posted By: CSL
Date Posted: 05 Nov 2019 at 12:29am
| So apparently it's true. Nothing ever really disappears on the internet. |
Posted By: hollows
Date Posted: 05 Nov 2019 at 8:30am
Same way I (started to) bring back the Quarterly thread. This isn't difficult, unless of course indignation feels so good that you'd rather not see solutions.
|
Posted By: Double 0 Soul
Date Posted: 05 Nov 2019 at 9:33am
|
If this is directed at me hollows, i think you're probably jumping
to your own conclusions, i feel a sense of exhaustion at the prospect
but indignation?...No I'm more of a say what's on your mind and move on kind of fellow If it's directed at CSL, then yes he seems very bitter and twisted ------------- I'll endorse anything for cash |
Posted By: hollows
Date Posted: 05 Nov 2019 at 10:42am
| It's directed at anyone who wants to recover deleted content. It's doable! Rejoice! |
Posted By: CSL
Date Posted: 05 Nov 2019 at 10:48am
|
And the people of Denimbro shall rise in their righteous indignation.... Didn't somebody say something like that a while back?
|